Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 23:26:37 -1000 From: leon@stack.urc.tue.nl (Leon Woestenberg) Message-Id: <1v6uod$p5t@tuegate.tue.nl> Organization: MCGV Stack, Eindhoven University of Technology, the Netherlands. Subject: Some terminology questions Hi(gh) flyers! I'm new on rec.kites and I have got some questions about the terms you guys are using. Here are some things I would like to have cleared up. Many things have todo with the metric system I'm used to work with (meters, kilograms..) What the hack are: spars - (are those the same as 'whiskers' - little fiberglass to keep your sail bold, for better litewind performance ?) bridle - ?? ripstop nylon - In Europe we call it Spinnaker nylon (because this type of material is used on the Spinnaker sail of a sailing boat) Carrington sail - ? Glassform Pro-Comp - ? (Are those commercial names for some materials ?) 1.5 oz (ripstop nylon) - weight per area (but what's the area size?) spine - the vertical one? spreader - the horizontal one (I think I get the idea :o) 80# Spectra - Is this a Spectra line that can take 800 Newton force (80kg) ? 50 lb Spectra - lb is something like 0.5xx kilograms, so 5.xx Newton force ? OK, I'll think I check out some metric conversion tables today. Will you guys never learn ISO metric (hehe :o) (metres, seconds, kilograms, Newtons) ? BTW, when is the Scheveningen Kite Festival? Fly High, ~~~~~~~~ Leon Woestenberg (leon@stack.urc.tue.nl) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 10:41:39 -1000 From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) Message-Id: <1993Jun10.204139.8803@nic.funet.fi> Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET Subject: Re: Some terminology questions In <1v6uod$p5t@tuegate.tue.nl> leon@stack.urc.tue.nl (Leon Woestenberg) writes: >Hi(gh) flyers! >I'm new on rec.kites and I have got some questions about the terms you guys >are using. Here are some things I would like to have cleared up. Many things >have todo with the metric system I'm used to work with (meters, kilograms..) I'll recommend you ftp to ftp.hawaii.edu and get the general.faq from there, it gives the answers to most of your questions. >Carrington sail - ? >Glassform Pro-Comp - ? (Are those commercial names for some materials ?) Right. (Rip stop and Carbon spar) >1.5 oz (ripstop nylon) - weight per area (but what's the area size?) In US the square yard - when it concerns sail cloth - has the other side only 28.5 inches long! (Don't ask me why.) (Marty, please include the following conversion "guide" in the general FAQ!) Rip stop weight conversion US/UK/ISO ==================================== US oz/(yd x 28.5inch) UK oz/yd2 gr/m2 <---------------- x1.25 ----> <-- x34 --> <------------------------------ x42 ------------> Example: Carrington Novare N1048 1.8 oz (UK): 1.8 x 34 -> 62 gr/m2 >spine - the vertical one? Yes. >spreader - the horizontal one (I think I get the idea :o) >80# Spectra - Is this a Spectra line that can take 800 Newton force (80kg) ? 40 kg. (# = lb) >50 lb Spectra - lb is something like 0.5xx kilograms, so 5.xx Newton force ? >OK, I'll think I check out some metric conversion tables today. Will you >guys never learn ISO metric (hehe :o) (metres, seconds, kilograms, Newtons) ? No comments. >BTW, when is the Scheveningen Kite Festival? 26...27 June, and Scheveningen is located in Den Haag, Holland:-) >Fly High, >~~~~~~~~ >Leon Woestenberg (leon@stack.urc.tue.nl) Smooth Winds Simo.Salanne@bofnet.mailnet.fi = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 06:08:01 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <1993Jun11.160801.6407@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: Some terminology questions In article <1993Jun10.204139.8803@nic.funet.fi>, salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) writes: >In <1v6uod$p5t@tuegate.tue.nl> leon@stack.urc.tue.nl (Leon Woestenberg) writes: >>I'm new on rec.kites and I have got some questions about the terms you guys >>are using. Here are some things I would like to have cleared up. Many things >>have todo with the metric system I'm used to work with (meters, kilograms..) > >I'll recommend you ftp to ftp.hawaii.edu and get the general.faq from >there, it gives the answers to most of your questions. I'll update the FAQ soon and send it out again... >>Carrington sail - ? Carrington is a UK manufacturer or ripstop nylon. The fabric is often sought out because of it's strength, and the beautiful colors that it comes in. When light backlights a kite made of Carrington, the kite seems to glow... >>Glassform Pro-Comp - ? (Are those commercial names for some materials ?) Glassforms is a USA manufacturer of arrow shafts and kite sticks. The Pro-Comp is one type of kite stick that they make. >>1.5 oz (ripstop nylon) - weight per area (but what's the area size?) > >In US the square yard - when it concerns sail cloth - has >the other side only 28.5 inches long! (Don't ask me why.) Are you sure of this Simo? I was under the impression that the weight was per square yard before the coating was applied. This makes all of the ripstop nylon heavier than than the specified weight. As an example, .75 ounce ripstop weighs around 1.2 ounces per square yard... >>OK, I'll think I check out some metric conversion tables today. Will you >>guys never learn ISO metric (hehe :o) (metres, seconds, kilograms, Newtons) ? >No comments. I have to admit to problems converting from one system to the other. If I stay in one world it's easy. One problem that I find particularly amusing is the fact that folks in the USA never use the unit of mass (a slug) but use the force measurement (pound) for everything. Do folks that use the metric system do the opposite (use kilograms to express force) or do you really use Newtons? -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1993 12:00:31 -1000 From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) Message-Id: <1993Jun11.220031.12740@nic.funet.fi> Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET Subject: Re: Some terminology questions In <1993Jun11.160801.6407@das.harvard.edu> sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) writes: >In article <1993Jun10.204139.8803@nic.funet.fi>, salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) writes: >>In <1v6uod$p5t@tuegate.tue.nl> leon@stack.urc.tue.nl (Leon Woestenberg) writes: (stuff deleted) >>>1.5 oz (ripstop nylon) - weight per area (but what's the area size?) >> >>In US the square yard - when it concerns sail cloth - has >>the other side only 28.5 inches long! (Don't ask me why.) >Are you sure of this Simo? I was under the impression that the weight >was per square yard before the coating was applied. This makes all of >the ripstop nylon heavier than than the specified weight. As an >example, .75 ounce ripstop weighs around 1.2 ounces per square yard... Well, I had to check it again... I have done sailing, too, and in my book shelf there is: Jeremy Howard-Williams, Sails, 4th edition, 1976 (!), Adlard Coles Ltd, London. In chapter III sailcloth, page 55 reads: "Before we get down to actual figures, I should say something about various methods of denoting cloth weight. The Americans measure sailcloth in ounces per yard of cloth 28 1/2 in. wide, whereas in Britain the square yard is used. There is thus an apparent difference of 20 per cent in our respective cloth weights, for a yard of cloth in Britain will have more material to be weighed (being 36 in. wide) than in America (being only 28 1/2 in. wide). Thus 3 1/2 oz. (US) is the same cloth as 4 1/2 oz (Br.), etc.." Of course the coating adds some weight to the cloth. E.g. the lightest Icarex, P-31 weights 31 g/m2 or 0.7 US oz before coating, and 35 g/m2 with the coating. Smooth Winds Simo.Salanne@bofnet.mailnet.fi P.S. In case the discussion goes on, I'll be away from my mailbox at least 2-3 weeks, holidays, flying:-)) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =