Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
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From: magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson)
Subject: REMINDER: there's a vote going on.
Message-ID: <1993Apr7.103545.29664@nomina.lu.se>
Sender: news@nomina.lu.se (USENET News System)
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Organization: Theoretical Physics, Lund University, Sweden
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1993 10:35:45 GMT
Lines: 322

This is just to remind all the readers of the int-fiction groups that
there's a vote going on about a reorganization of
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games. 

The proposal includes the creation of a new group,
c.s.i.p.g.adventure, which has a charter that overlaps that of
rec.games.int-fiction. 

This means that you may want to vote on this issue (if you have not
already done so). 

Below, I quote the CFV in its entirety. I've left out the Vote
Acknowledgement part of the original post to save bandwidth, if you'd
like to see it, please check out news.announce.newgroups.


IMAO, I don't think we need another newsgroup for adventure games. Of
course, not all people share my opinion (or the CFV wouldn't have
looked as it does), but I think it's noteworthy that the originator of
the CFV apparently is confusing rec.games.int-fiction with
rec.arts.int.fiction (in claiming that the proposed group would be
different from rec.games.i-f), *despite* this issue having been
discussed at length when the RFD was posted).


              Magnus Olsson                | \e+      /_
    Department of Theoretical Physics      |  \  Z   / q
        University of Lund, Sweden         |   >----<           
 magnus@thep.lu.se,  thepmo@selund.bitnet  |  /      \===== g
PGP key available via finger or on request | /e-      \q


>From: rdippold@qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
Subject: 3rd CFV and VOTE ACK: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games reorganization
Date: 6 Apr 1993 12:32:55 -0400
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

CALL FOR VOTES for reorganization of comp.sys.ibm.pc.games

[ The voting form is at the bottom of this posting.  Please use it.
Followups are directed to poster - if you wish to discuss this
publically, please followup to news.groups.  I know this is very long,
but it's a complex vote, sorry.  This is the LAST CFV for this group,
so vote now or forever hold your peace. ]

PROPOSAL:   

	The newsgroup comp.sys.ibm.pc.games shall be divided into a
series of subgroups based on the long-term topics that are currently
all in a single group.

	The new subgroups shall be named based on the type of games
to be discussed therein.  The proposed subgroups below
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games (csipg) are:

	csipg.action
	csipg.adventure
	csipg.announce (moderated)
	csipg.flight-sim
	csipg.misc
	csipg.rpg
	csipg.strategic


RATIONALE:  

	c.s.i.p.g is an extremely large newsgroup (well over 200 posts
per day is very common), which has resulted in many people being
unable to keep up with the group in a reasonable way even with valiant
use of kill and select files.  A straw poll was conducted after much
discussion in the group as to the necessity of this split, and this
CFV is based on those results and the subsequent RFD, as well as an
analysis of traffic on the group. Most people agreed that a topical
split is appropriate, based on the type of game that is being
discussed.

	Since discussions on the net have been shown to follow
categorical lines that are also recognized in gaming publications, the
proposed groups partially follow these established groupings, as well
as the surveys mentioned and the RFD on this subject.  Some groups
which might be nice to have, such as .forsale, .advocacy, and .sports,
do not appear here.  If there is sufficient interest/traffic these can
be added later with another CFV.  For now a 14-way split vote would be
excessive.



THE PROPOSALS

RENAMING: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games  to  comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.misc

	This unmoderated group is for the discussion of all topics that
do not fall under another games subgroup.  This group will take the place
of the current c.s.i.p.g and will carry all discussions that should not
be carried out in other games subgroups.  These discussions include 
items for sale.  

	Should comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.misc pass, comp.sys.ibm.pc.games 
shall be rmgrouped three months after the creation of c.s.i.p.g.misc.

	The goal here is to preserve the heirarchical standards of the
net - If a group is created from group foo.bar, such as foo.bar.stuff,
then foo.bar should move to foo.bar.misc in order to keep everything
at the same level.  If you vote for any other group in this vote you
should probably be voting for this as well (but it is not required).



NEW GROUP: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.announce (moderated)

	This moderated group is for announcements that are useful to
the entire PC computer gaming population, including but not limited to
new release announcements, software publisher news, bug information,
reviews and GAME BYTES information.  Followups will be directed to
misc or another appropriate subgroup at the moderator's discretion.
Should the moderator step down or disappear without naming a successor
due to unforseen circumstances, a new moderator shall be proposed and
voted upon in news.groups/news.announce.newgroups according to
standard CFV protocol for group creation.

	The moderator shall be Joseph Cochran,
jsciv@polaris.async.vt.edu.  The alternate moderator in case the
moderator will be absent for a period due to vacation or other
concerns (when to invoke this is at the discretion of the moderator)
shall be Ron Dippold, rdippold@qualcomm.com.



NEW GROUP: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure

	This unmoderated group is for the discussion of adventure games.
Adventure games are generally games in which an unchanging character is
presented with puzzles, problems and obstacles which must be solved to
attain the game's goal.  Generally, combat is not a major feature of the
game, and all players are confronted with the same puzzles in the path
to the solution.  These games usually transport the character from place
to place in descrete steps, using stylized art to enhance the backdrop 
and setting of the game, and present the player with unique puzzles that
have unique solutions.  Examples include the King's Quest series and the
Indiana Jones Adventure series. 

	This group does not cover the same material as
rec.games.int-fiction, which is more interested in the storytelling and
design aspects of interactive fiction games, and Infocom games more
specifically.  The subjects are similar, but not overlapping. The
adventure game subjects that are currently discussed on
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games but not rec.games.int-fiction are those that will
be discussed on comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure.

This group also includes role playing adventure games (discussed
below) - however, if the vote is to further split off csipg.rpg, then
all discussion of that subject will go there.  Therefore, if you wish
adventure and role playing games to be in one group, vote for
csipg.adventure and not csipg.rpg, but if you want them to be separate
vote for both.  You can vote for csipg.rpg and against csipg.adventure
if you wish to.



NEW GROUP: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg

	This unmoderated group is for the discussion of role-playing
games which are played on IBM PC compatibles.   This is a further
split of the comp.sys.ibm.pc.adventure group.  If this group is not
created, the discussion of this subject will remain in the
csipg.adventure group.  If, for some reason, this group is created and
the adventure group is not, this group will still only include rgp
subjects. 

 	Computer role-playing games are generally games in which a
character is presented with puzzles, problems and obstacles which must
be solved.  Generally, the game world's presentation and the player's
options for interacting with it are standardized and consistent within
the game.  Player, object, and monster characteristics are usually
given in some numerical or other discrete form - the most common
example is "Hit points" to indicate remaining health.

	Such games are typically characterized by continuous maps
instead of discrete painted backdrops and standardized options for
attack, defense, and other forms of dealing with obstacles.  The
intent of a CRPG is to set the player's adventure in a larger
framework of an internally consistent world, as opposed to having the
player only relate to the game world through the particular puzzles
that are posed to him or her.  Examples include the Ultima and
Wizardry series of games.



NEW GROUP: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

	This unmoderated group is for the discussion of action/arcade
games. Action and arcade games are generally fast paced games which have
a simple goal, and usually require good hand-eye coordination.  Examples
include Lemmings, Wolfenstein 3D, and Wing Commander.



NEW GROUP: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim

	This unmoderated group is for the discussion of flight
simulation games.  Simulation games are games which simulate a real
or theoretically plausible air vehicle (using today's current 
technology as its basis), and allow players to manipulate it as if
it were real.  Examples include F15 Strike Eagle and Falcon 3.0.

	This group does not cover the same subject as
rec.aviation.simulators, although they are related.  Again,
rec.aviation.simulators is concerned with realism and related issues,
while this group is more concerned with game play.


NEW GROUP: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic

	This unmoderated group is for the discussion of strategy games.
Strategy games usually involve complex manipulation of game resources 
in many different ways, which directly affects the progress and outcome
of the game.  Also included within this description are wargames, which
often invlove similar strategic planning operations.  Examples include
Civilization, SimCity, and Castles.



(Repeated) Notes:

	Should csipg.adventure pass a vote and csipg.rpg not pass,
csipg.adventure will retain the discussion of role playing games as
well.  If you feel that they should be in one group, please vote for
.adventure and not .rpg to keep these issues from being confounded.
If only csipg.rgp passes, it will be only for the discussion of rpgs.

	The moderator of c.s.i.p.g.announce shall be Joseph Cochran, at
email address jsciv@polaris.async.vt.edu. 

	Should the renaming of comp.sys.ibm.pc.games to
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.misc pass, comp.sys.ibm.pc.games shall be
rmgrouped three months after the creation of csipg.misc.


VOTING PERIOD

	The voting shall run from the period of this posting till
April 16, 11:59 PM GMT.  No votes recieved after this time will be
counted.  Results will be posted April 19.

	Within this period I will be posting up to two additional Call
for Votes, as well as mass acknowledgements of all voters.


VOTING RESULTS

	After the vote is over, all voters will be listed along with
their actual votes.  For each group, if the yes votes outnumber the no
votes by at least 100 votes, and if the yes votes are at least 2/3 of
total yes/no votes, the group "passes."  After five days, if there are
no serious unresolved questions about the validity of the vote, the
group will be created by the gracious newgroups moderator.


VOTE TAKER

	As of the time this CFV is posted, I will cease to campaign for
or against this reorganization, in public or in private.  I will answer
questions about the group and point interested parties to the CFVs, but
will not advocate that they vote for or against any group.


VOTE FORM (finally!)

	Please REPLY to this message via MAIL.	Posts can not be
counted.  You will recieve a reply within a few days after your votes
are recieved which indicates how I think you voted - please mail
corrections immediately.

	PLEASE USE THE FORM AS IT IS.

	Please do not delete anything between the "-=-=-=-=-" lines -
and most certainly do not monkey with the group names.	This vote will
probably involve approximately 500 voters voting on 7 separate groups.
Votes will be tallied by an automatic program and if it can't
determine your vote you will be asked to re-vote.

	For each group, simply add your vote in the appropriate space on
the same line.	Recognized votes are Yes, No, For, and Against.  Yes and
For are equivalent, as are No and Against.  Capitalization is not
important. If you don't want to vote on a particular group, just leave
the space blank.  Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote
characters ">" that your reply inserts.  

	You may _NOT_ do a combined vote - i.e., "I vote for all of
them" or "I vote against all of them."  Please use the form.

	You may only vote once, regardless of how many accounts you
may have.  Forwarded or proxy votes are invalid.

-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

comp.sys.ibm.pc.games Reorganization Ballot  [CSIPGR0003]

Your Vote      Group
-----------------------------------------------------------
>yes		   this.is.an.example.group
>no		  this.is.another.example.group

	       comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.misc (rename comp.sys.ibm.pc.games) 
	       comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.announce (moderated)

               comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
	       comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim
	       comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic

	       comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure
	       comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (split of csipg.adventure)

-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Congratulations.  You have reached the end of this CFV.  Pat yourself
on the back.

But Wait!  Here's the Vote Ack:  if you've voted before Sunday, April
4, and you don't see yourself here, please let me know. 

