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From: LoneCleric <lonecleric@notreally.sympatico.ca>
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Subject: Re: A fundamental problem - non-expert perspective
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I pondered for a while as to whether or not I should "step in the
defense" of HotU, considering that 1) I am not affiliated with them in
any way, and 2) I don't necessarily agree with the whole of their
opinions or with everything they do.

But nevertheless, since your post seemed to imply that the website has
its share of responsibility in Transit's predicament, I felt compelled
to point some things out.

Walter Sandsquish wrote:

> I think this, also, is a contextual problem. I was startled to hear that
> r.a.i-f games were on The Home of the Underdogs. I had thought this was
> an abandonware site.


Well, according to their own "About" section:

"Home of the Underdogs is a non-profit site dedicated to the
preservation and promotion of underrated PC games  (and a few non-PC
games) of all ages: good games that deserve a second chance after dismal
sales or critical reviews that we feel are unwarranted."
[...]
"Home of the Underdogs, while not an abandonware site per se (since our
aim is to pay tribute to all underdogs, both new and old), supports the
abandonware idea."

So yes, they're an abandonware site, but they strive to be much more
than that.

> But, I just looked and there are a LOT of r.a.i-f
> games there, including mini-comp games and even a few speedIF games. This
> is NOT good news.


I believe it is quite the opposite. Here's a website which proclaims
that several recent freeware games and as good (or better) than many
commercial games of the 80s. Sounds pretty good to me. Also note that
it's thanks to this site that Transit got to take a look at some recent
IF pieces. Maybe he didn't enjoy them, but at least he got aware of
their existence.

> I don't know if game authors are submitting games to
> The Underdogs or if one of the site's maintainers is a r.a.i-f fan,


The later. I remember one of the maintainer showing up of ifMud once in
a while, too.

> but either way, I think it would be wiser for whoever is putting these games
> up there to be a little more selective.


Well, the "Underdogs" are mentioning games they've played an enjoyed.
You can disagree with them, but everyone's entitled to their own
opinions, right?

> People outside of this community
> will, quite reasonably, compare some of these one-joke or hurriedly designed
> mini-comp games with Infocom's work. These people will, understandably, be
> very disappointed and may decide that this is ...


Hmm, which games are you talking about here? I just had a glance at the
list and most of those seem like pretty nice games to me.

Transit's disappointment seemed to have occur when he downloaded the
SmoochieComp's package from Emily's webpage. Maybe he assumed that
they'd all be as good as Pytho's Mask (which is the only one mentioned
on HotU). Like you said, it's a contextual problem.


> Good question. Many games do have a help command. The people who are
> releasing games without them are probably assuming that only r.*.i-f
> regulars will be playing the games.


I'm not so sure they assume such a thing, but if they do, they're quite
wrong. Although they share several individuals, The "r*if" community
differs from the "ifMud" community, which differs from the people who
gave up on both long ago and rely solely on IFArchive.org and
Brasslantern.org to keep in touch with the world of IF.

> Evidently, someone forgot to tell them
> that their games are also being distributed via The Home of the Underdogs.


HotU isn't "distributing" the games. Each of the "featured" game has a
page with a nice review and a link to the Archive. Which is pretty much
what Baf's guide also does.


Hoping the above was more informative than annoying,
LC

