Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:32:38 -1000 From: gmm@sanger.ac.uk (Gavin McKeown) Message-Id: <3v0au6$7bf@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> Organization: The Sanger Centre Subject: Learning to fly Revolutions Hi all, I'm new to newsgroups and unfortunately I'm leaving this job which has internet access on August 11th so it'll be a short lived thing.... Anyway, what I'd like to know is if anyone can give me some tips on moving from two line to four line. I have flown several 2 line kites (Sandpiper, Banshee, Spectra Sports Pro, 6ft Flexis etc etc) but I've been impressed by four lines I've seen. I bought a Rev II from Whamm kites in Thurrock (UK) a while back but they were supplying it without the training video....they said that was how they got them these days. I've flown it briefly but I keep using my two line instincts which I know is wrong and makes the kite crash. Has anyone got a good way of re-learning how to control the thing...? Or better still has anyone got a UK (PAL) version of the training video that they could give / lend / sell me...? Any help would be greatly appreciated...please e-mail me (gmm@sanger.ac.uk) or post replies here. Thanks Gavin = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:37:27 -1000 From: "Dr. Memory" Message-Id: <3v10a8$kr1@News1.mcs.net> Organization: MCSNet Internet Services Subject: Re: Learning to fly Revolutions Gavin, I have a few years experience flying quads, and your problem is quite common. Some advice from me is as follows: -keep your hands next to each other, until you get the hang of it. -keep your hands all the way to the top of the handles, thumbs over the top. -to fly normally always keep the top portion of the handle back, and bottoms out. -turn by tilting one handle bottom back toward you, and as you get better tilt the other opposite at the same time. -eventually you can pull the whole handle back for things like sliding sideways, or hovering in a wingtip stand. -to take off up-side-down, just pull back on both handle bottoms, and give it a good tug, then rotate it over. -revs by nature are not very stable inverted, as they tend to do a flip over and tangle up your lines. -most important is remembering moderation, a little bit can do a lot for you with a rev! -- Dan Nottingham dnttnghm@mcs.com "Out Out!! You Demons of Stupidity!!" -Saint Dogbert = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:37:27 -1000 From: "Dr. Memory" Message-Id: <3v10a8$kr1@News1.mcs.net> Organization: MCSNet Internet Services Subject: Re: Learning to fly Revolutions Gavin, I have a few years experience flying quads, and your problem is quite common. Some advice from me is as follows: -keep your hands next to each other, until you get the hang of it. -keep your hands all the way to the top of the handles, thumbs over the top. -to fly normally always keep the top portion of the handle back, and bottoms out. -turn by tilting one handle bottom back toward you, and as you get better tilt the other opposite at the same time. -eventually you can pull the whole handle back for things like sliding sideways, or hovering in a wingtip stand. -to take off up-side-down, just pull back on both handle bottoms, and give it a good tug, then rotate it over. -revs by nature are not very stable inverted, as they tend to do a flip over and tangle up your lines. -most important is remembering moderation, a little bit can do a lot for you with a rev! -- Dan Nottingham dnttnghm@mcs.com "Out Out!! You Demons of Stupidity!!" -Saint Dogbert = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:12:09 -1000 From: fk2m@bfkvax.fm.bs.dlr.de (Joerg J. Buchholz joerg.buchholz@dlr.de) Message-Id: <95072510120951@bfkvax.fm.bs.dlr.de> Organization: Harvard University Office of Information Technology Subject: Re: Learning to fly Revolutions Dear Gavin There is a Revolution Simulator available at ftp.uni-bremen.de/pub/kites/simulation/revsim or ftp.hawaii.edu/pub/rec/kites/simulation/revsim that might give you an idea ... -- joerg.buchholz@dlr.de = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 02:56:54 -1000 From: windwiz@west.net (Dan Rubesh) Message-Id: <3v2pmm$h06@acme.sb.west.net> Organization: WestNet Communications Subject: Re: Learning to fly Revolutions Just some musings on transition from 2 - 4 line flight.. (1) Go off to a quiet corner of the park where no-one will bother you for a while.. (2) Place your hands high on the handles, thumbs on the upper vinyl tips, index finger up against the ring.. you want to be able to pivot the handles about your index finger.. (3) While you're going through the initial learning phase, imagine that your elbows are tied to your sides.. You've got to _unlearn_ all of your 2 line instincts.. To launch the kite, rotate your hands back, pointing your thumbs toward your shoulders.. Sometimes a sharp pull on the lines is necessary depending on wind.. Your thumbs are the key to control, IMHO.. To fly forward, your thumbs need to be pointed somewhat back, away from the kite. To fly backward, your thumbs need to be pointed toward the kite.. To turn right, point your right thumb at the kite, left thumb to the kite to turn left, keeping your non-turning hand in a neutral position.. To turn _sharper/tighter_ rotate your neutral hand opposite your turning hand.. i.e. point right thumb to the kite, left thumb to your shoulder for a sharp right turn.. This is the basis of the propeller spin.. (3) practice launching, flying up to the top of the window, and backing down to the ground, noticing what effect your hand rotation has on speed control.. (4) You will, with practice be able to hover the kite in almost any position in the window.. When you're able to turn the kite sideways, (leading edge perpendicular to the ground) and hover, _then_ you can use SMALL two-line input to control the altitude of the kite in the window.. (5) BREATHE!!! (6) your mileage may vary, and you'll not likely learn it all in one bite.. -- Dan Rubesh GO Wind Wizard windwiz@west.net FLY A P.O. Box 5747 danr@crash.cts.com SPORT KITE Ventura, CA 93005 (805) 659-5769 (voice & fax) T.B.N.K. Member: AKA & KTA = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:10:20 -1000 From: Julie@canleo.demon.co.uk (Julie White) Message-Id: <806674048.1711@canleo.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: Learning to fly Revolutions gmm@sanger.ac.uk (Gavin McKeown) wrote: >Anyway, what I'd like to know is if anyone can give me some tips on >moving from two line to four line. There is an article in the recently issued magazine Drachenmagazin International (English version of Drachenmagazin). I haven't actually read it myself yet so I do not know how good it is, but I am sure it is a start. > I have flown several 2 line kites >(Sandpiper, Banshee, Spectra Sports Pro, 6ft Flexis etc etc) but I've >been impressed by four lines I've seen. I bought a Rev II from Whamm >kites in Thurrock (UK) a while back but they were supplying it without >the training video....they said that was how they got them these days. >I've flown it briefly but I keep using my two line instincts which I >know is wrong and makes the kite crash. Has anyone got a good way of >re-learning how to control the thing...? Or better still has anyone >got a UK (PAL) version of the training video that they could give / lend >/ sell me...? We have two Rev ll's and would lend you our copy. Email me direct to arrange details. Better still, find where your local kite group meet. I am sure someone will have a four line kite to give you the basics. Have you just missed the Blackheath Festival on Sunday where someone would have been flying a quad kite or two. Or how about the Middle Wallop Kite event, Hampshire on 5 & 6 August? Happy flying Julie White Secretary of The Midlands Kite Fliers Julie White - Club Secretary -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Midlands Kite Fliers of Great Britain was formed in 1979 to promote safe kiting in the Midlands and all over the World. The club now has over 500 members who come mainly from the central counties of England. EMail: mkf@canleo.demon.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 04:57:11 -1000 From: gmm@sanger.ac.uk (Gavin McKeown) Message-Id: <3v30o7$b9p@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> Organization: The Sanger Centre Subject: Re: Learning to fly Revolutions In article <95072510120951@bfkvax.fm.bs.dlr.de>, fk2m@bfkvax.fm.bs.dlr.de (Joerg J. Buchholz joerg.buchholz@dlr.de) says: > > >There is a Revolution Simulator available at >ftp.uni-bremen.de/pub/kites/simulation/revsim or >ftp.hawaii.edu/pub/rec/kites/simulation/revsim >that might give you an idea ... > >-- >joerg.buchholz@dlr.de Joerg, Thanks for the pointer to the simulator - I've downloaded it and given it a go.... One thing I've noticed is that it takes as much time to get used to the mouse interface as it does to get used to 4-line handles! I know you asked for suggestions as to how to make a better interface so how about this... Why not use four keys to simulate the top and bottom of each handle...eg 2 & x for the left and 0 & m for the right. I know this has the disadvantage of being digital rather then analogue but maybe you could get around that for timing how long each key is held down for. Other than that I think the two joysticks would work providing they were fixed down to the desk (and that you had access to two sticks of course!!) Gavin = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:44:57 -1000 From: johnsen@eskimo.com (Brian Johnsen) Message-Id: Organization: Tethered Airfoil R&D Pty. Ltd.(C)(R)(TM) CD CASS Subject: Re: Learning to fly Revolutions Another thing you might try is an 8 inch diameter loop of 1/4 inch twine. Put both hands through it and drape it over your wrists, then pick up the handles. Keep your wrists together and control speed and turning only with the bottom lines. Easy does it. -- "Androids From Planet 9 Landed In My Woodshed And Took Seventy-Three Tangerines" Says Dolly Parton -- Brian Johnsen johnsen@eskimo.com Seattle, Washington USA = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 00:52:57 -1000 From: steveh@pyramid.com (Steve Hammatt) Message-Id: <3v7r69$96p@sword.eng.pyramid.com> Organization: Pyramid Technology Subject: Re: Learning to fly Revolutions Gavin McKeown (gmm@sanger.ac.uk) wrote about his Rev experiences : > I've flown it briefly but I keep using my two line instincts which I > know is wrong and makes the kite crash. Has anyone got a good way of > re-learning how to control the thing...? Or better still has anyone > got a UK (PAL) version of the training video that they could give / lend > / sell me...? Hi Gavin, If you call the Kite Store in Covent Garden, London (0171 836 1666), they should be able to sell you a copy of the appropriate Rev training video. This will make things a *lot* clearer for you. Cheers, Steve. -- Steve Hammatt | steveh@pyramid.com | Camberley | - or - | I love my kites Surrey, UK | steveh@pyra.co.uk | (but not in the biblical sense) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 04:51:25 -1000 From: <100422.2561@compuserve.com> Message-Id: <3vo3dd$rru@dub-news-svc-2.compuserve.com> Organization: CompuServe Incorporated Subject: Learning to Fly Revolutions gmm@sanger.ac.uk (Gavin McKeown) writes: .... >I've flown it briefly but I keep using my two line instincts which I >know is wrong and makes the kite crash. Has anyone got a good way of >re-learning how to control the thing...? Or better still has anyone >got a UK (PAL) version of the training video that they could give / lend >/ sell me...? > >Any help would be greatly appreciated...please e-mail me (gmm@sanger.ac.uk) >or post replies here. > >Thanks > > Gavin Onbe fo the things that has helped all the people I've introduced to four lines is to tie the wrists together - use one of a pair of two line wrist straps Good Luck - the effort is worth it Larry Botheras = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 04:56:08 -1000 From: antony@aol.com (Antony) Message-Id: <3vqo28$4q6@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Learning to Fly Revolutions When I was teaching My wife to Fly the Rev I broke her of the habid of Two-lining the rev by using a belt to hold her elbows to her sides. This worked better then tying her wrist together, Just a thought that may help you, that and lots of airtime. good luck.....Antony Antony Francis Licensed Broker/Associate Stovroff & Herman REALTORS Serving the Western New York Area = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 16:17:17 -1000 From: windwiz@rain.org (Dan Rubesh) Message-Id: <3vukbd$s7@news.rain.org> Organization: RAIN Network Subject: Re: Learning to Fly Revolutions In article <3vqo28$4q6@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, Antony wrote: >When I was teaching My wife to Fly the Rev I broke her of the habid of >Two-lining the rev by using a belt to hold her elbows to her sides. This >worked better then tying her wrist together, Just a thought that may help >you, that and lots of airtime. good luck.....Antony >Antony Francis >Licensed Broker/Associate >Stovroff & Herman REALTORS >Serving the Western New York Area Hmmmm.. Maybe this should be corssposted to alt.sex.bondage?? :-) :-) <> (Sorry, I couldn't resist) -- Dan Rubesh GO Wind Wizard windwiz@coyote.rain.org FLY A P.O. Box 5747 danr@crash.cts.com SPORT KITE Ventura, CA 93005 (805) 659-5769 (voice & fax) T.B.N.K. Member: AKA & KTA = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 17:59:53 -1000 From: HSHLee@aol.com Message-Id: <950805235912_131476686@aol.com> Organization: Harvard University Office of Information Technology Subject: Re: Learning to Fly Revolutions >When I was teaching My wife to Fly the Rev I broke her of the habid of >Two-lining the rev by using a belt to hold her elbows to her sides. This >worked better then tying her wrist together, Just a thought that may help I'd like to hear more about who uses what to tie their spouses up with, and how well it works for you. Specifically, do you sleeve your knots for added strength? --Harold prey for wind = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 17:59:53 -1000 From: HSHLee@aol.com Message-Id: <950805235912_131476686@aol.com> Organization: Harvard University Office of Information Technology Subject: Re: Learning to Fly Revolutions >When I was teaching My wife to Fly the Rev I broke her of the habid of >Two-lining the rev by using a belt to hold her elbows to her sides. This >worked better then tying her wrist together, Just a thought that may help I'd like to hear more about who uses what to tie their spouses up with, and how well it works for you. Specifically, do you sleeve your knots for added strength? --Harold prey for wind = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =